stilldeepwater, this one's for you...

[electricland]

Egads, how I love Scientific American's weekly email.

How does nerve gas work?

Better Killing through Chemistry

Comments

[stilldeepwater.livejournal.com]

Hee...creepy, yes, but I found myself nodding and agreeing with everything. It is easy to order chemicals if one knows how the system works.

-rubs hands and has thoughts of world domination-

Now, I'm kind of tempted to look up the structure of sarin so I can figure out the synthesis ;-)

[talisker.livejournal.com]

By following one of the well-known recipes for sarin, he could have made 280 grams of the stuff

Articles like that really make me laugh. Having the recipe is not the end-all. You need to know how to make the stuff without blowing yourself up or worse...

Reminds me of a book I once came across called psychedelic chemistry. It was a series of protocols to make all sorts of nice drugs with readily available ingredients. There was a full protocol on how to process raw coca leaves into medical-grade cocaine (ok, so a 100 pounds of raw coca leaves isn't that readily available, but bear with me).

At one point, the protocol said to add 2L of concentrated stock sulfuric acid one drop at a time. Now there are probably many good reasons for this (such as this reaction is very exothermic and adding it too quickly will make it go boom, or adding too much at one time will produce side reactions that will make by-products that will poison anybody that takes the drug). Point is, they failed to mention any of the reasons. I can just imagine some doofus trying to follow that recipe and cutting corners.... Darwinism at its best, I suppose :)

This is not something that you can do on a cooktop stove in your kitchen and live to tell the tale. You need lab-grade materials in lab-grade conditions.

[electricland.livejournal.com]

Articles like that really make me laugh. Having the recipe is not the end-all. You need to know how to make the stuff without blowing yourself up or worse...

Well, yeah. (In fact the author of the article points this out in one of the sidebars.) But the important point was that despite claims to the contrary, access to the raw materials for a lot of quite dangerous substances is not well controlled, and anyone who has the appropriate knowledge -- you or me or stilldeepwater, for instance -- and access to the right equipment could make the stuff if they wished. Which I find a tad scary...

[talisker.livejournal.com]

quite dangerous substances is not well controlled

Granted. Still, I'm not all that worried, to be quite honest.

Even with the knowhow and the equipment, these are not the most user-friendly protocols. I've had tons of misguided friends who've asked me to make stuff for them. Putting aside the illegal aspects of most of their ventures, I always said no because I didn't want to be responsible for accidentally poisoning my friends.

[stilldeepwater.livejournal.com]

All you really need is chemistry know-how and proper lab equipment. Lack of lab space is not stopping people from making crystal meth or other drugs.

I am laughing over the 100 lbs of coca leaves. Extracting chemicals out of plant material is guaranteed fun.

[talisker.livejournal.com]

Lack of lab space is not stopping people from making crystal meth or other drugs.

yes, but crystal meth is a fairly straightforward synth, unless I'm mistaken. Those that do screw it up, well, that's Darwinism again. Also, the makers don't really care if they poison a few people by accident. It might hurt the bottom line in the short run, but there are always takers to the product, sadly.

As for the book, I ran across it on the shelves of Chanvre en ville, a hemp/paraphernalia store. I always regret not buying it, as the next time I went there, it was gone.

[electricland.livejournal.com]

It does sound like hours o' fun... I will keep an eye out!

[talisker.livejournal.com]

I just found the book online: http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/psychedelicchemistry/chapter8.html

My memory was off on a few details, but it's still a funny read. Oh, and 100 pounds of raw leaves will produce 1 pound of pure drug :)

[stilldeepwater.livejournal.com]

Crystal meth is a short, straightforward synthesis. However, say there's a really determined and fanatical terrorist with lots of money and connections out there...all he would need to do is find a qualified chemist who is willing to do it and a fairly complex synthesis can be done in a non-lab setting. I don't think terrorists mind if the sarin product or whatever chemical weapon they're making, is not 100% pure - just so long as it kills!

I'd be interested to see this book...

[talisker.livejournal.com]

don't think terrorists mind if the sarin product or whatever chemical weapon they're making, is not 100% pure - just so long as it kills!

sadly, that is a valid point. And I just found the book online. The link is posted in another comment.

[bryghtboy.livejournal.com]

I can't help but think that any checks or balances put on chemicals would be aimed at the less advanced terrorist because a well organized group of people with fairly basic access to shipping manifests could certainly by-pass the whole idea of buying the material.

I know, this isn't exactly the point... but so long as this stuff has a legit use it will be shipped and some can always "fall off the truck" or something.

I'd think that there is another reason why more groups filled with hate haven't gone this route to terrorism before other than complexity and difficulty. I know that the NSA and CIA track all sorts of strange factoids so perhaps people have and we just didn't hear about it because they were found and horrible things happened to them very quietly. Because as the articles suggest, the chemistry of making toxic stuff is not stunningly hard. So maybe another reason?