a thought

[electricland]

Got quite worked up and ranty (in my head) on the streetcar while considering moonlightjoy's post from yesterday. It's locked so I won't quote, but I would be willing to bet cash money that every woman out there has at one time or another gone through some variant of the following:

MAN: Hi.
WOMAN: Hi.
MAN: Come over here and talk to me.
WOMAN (smiles politely): No thanks.
MAN: Why not?
WOMAN: I don't want to.
MAN: You don't have to be such a bitch about it. I was just being nice.
WOMAN (who has been properly socialized): *feels guilty, wonders for the next several hours how she could have handled the situation better*

This is not the correct response. The correct response, for next time, is "Hey buddy, you are a complete stranger. What makes you so sure that your random claim on my time and attention is more important than whatever I want to be doing?"

Or "I am not a public service, and I don't care what you think of me."

Or even "No, you were not just being nice. You want to see me being a bitch about it? Fuck off."

---

Aside from that, how's everyone's morning?

Comments

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I once had a guy who would not take no for an answer. He actually demanded to see my wedding ring when I told him I was married and not interested. (Instead of the true but not polite simply not interested.) I mean really -- what, I have to have a doctor's note to not go on a date with you? Jerk.

But you get flummoxed, and hold out your left hand, and he peered at the ring as though to verify it's authenticity.

[elissa-carey.livejournal.com]

Gah. I can't stand it when a guy thinks that if you don't want to talk to him or go out with him, that you're being a bitch. Excuse me? So what happens if he's the one not wanting to go out or talk: is he the asshole now? Can we properly call him on that too? I sure hope so, because that might pop a few overinflated male egos.

I've got a few ranty, choice words and responses to that:
"No. If I wanted to be a bitch, I would have told you to fuck off first thing, instead of being polite to you. Just because your mother didn't properly socialize you is no excuse for you to believe that I owe you something. I don't owe you a damned thing except politeness, and that I've already given and had flung back in my face. I highly suggest you refine your socialization skills, or you will find yourself a very lonely onanist when you're old."

[lietya.livejournal.com]

Boym, do I know *that* one. I like the last response, too. It's true, we've been "properly socialized" not to be a bitch, but you know what? If you're gonna be an asshole, I get to be a bitch.

Anyone who issues commands to total strangers in public places deserves what they get.

and "I am not a public service" is a good way of putting it. I'm not going to smile, be pretty, entertain you, or otherwise enhance your life just because I happen to a) have tits and b) have the misfortune to be in your presence. Too bad; bring a book next time. (Speaking of, I HATE when I am reading and a man comes over and tries to chat me up. Uh, jerk, you thought I had this book here so I'd look more womanly and approachable?)

[lietya.livejournal.com]

That is just ridiculous. Wow. Though I believe you, as I once had a man tell me I was *lying* because I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. (Hey, it's midnight in an apartment laundry room. Aside from the scary aspects of being in there with a strange man alone, the fuck was I to know I had to have "MARRIED" tattooed on my forehead before I dared set foot in there?)

[lawgeekgurl.livejournal.com]

ah, the classic "you aren't interested in me, so something is wrong with you" ploy.

asshats.

[rubberneck.livejournal.com]

Apparently I have not been properly socialized, as my response (on those few memorable occasions when some stranger tried to pick me up--including a self-proclaimed 'pimp' in downtown Baltimore) is usually a "No" without the thanks, and so it never escalates. Or they just want to watch me walk away, perhaps, check out the junk in the trunk.

I tend to be hit on randomly by gregarious black men and Latino boys.

And my immediate reaction to the above conversation was anger, not guilt, because the conversation starts out with a command on his part and that always gets my back up right quick.

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

Let's not forget the flipside to this:

Man: Hi!
Woman: What are you some kind of a deranged sex pervert!? Go away or I'll scream!

Man to himself: damn, I was just trying to be friendly. what a bitch. I can't wait to tell my girlfriend.

[lilactime.livejournal.com]

I once got hassled by a black guy in a variety store who, when I refused to say hello back to him and rebuffed his advances, started causing a scene suggesting that I was purposely being rude to him because he was black. My response was that I don't talk to strangers on the street, regardless of the colour of their skin, and given that we were at the corner of Bloor and Lansdowne and I had just seen him talking to a known heroine dealer, ignoring his attentions was really a very reasonable course of action. Then the store owner kicked him out. :)

[kendokamel.livejournal.com]

Ah, PePe le Pew lives on. d:

[rottenfruit.livejournal.com]

It's kind of a shame, that 99% of the time that I talk to strangers, they want something from me: sex, money, to save my soul. Yet I continue to talk to strangers because I'd like to believe we live in a world where people can reach out to one another, instead of being afraid of human contact...

wow. timing = freaky.

[claris.livejournal.com]

I was just talking about this somewhere else...but I cross-posted just for you...

Freak Beacon Fun.

[erbie.livejournal.com]

But the other scenario is FAR more common. Ask any woman friend you know. If a woman isn't interested in talking to a man, any man, for ANY reason, she's automatically a bitch. Men don't understand the lives that women lead. Any random guy talking to you could be sizing you up to be his next victim. Obviously not all men, but how am I to know if Random Guy in the dark parking lot offering to help me with my groceries really is just offering to help, or is trying to get close enough to punch me in the face and drag me off?

This is the life women lead EVERY day. It's not something men have to think about. When was the last time you decided to leave the laundry in the laundry room overnight, not because you were too lazy to get it, but because you were afraid to go out there and get it by yourself? Do you constantly look around when you're walking after dark, to make sure there's no-one getting too close or looking at you funny? It's just a different life for women.

[erbie.livejournal.com]

Have you read Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear? If not, read it. I need to read it again.

[erbie.livejournal.com]

I haven't either. I just ignore people like this, and if they don't get the idea, I tell them straight out to get away from me. Of course, most of the time when I'm out, I've either got my kid or my husband with me, so it doesn't happen as often as when I was single. But even then, I didn't bother with the niceties if someone got my hackles up.

[moonlightjoy.livejournal.com]

hehe! Yeah... I especially refrain from telling the guys who hit on me that I'm a lesbian, because then of course THAT is the reason I'm not into the guy and not cuz he's a creep...

[lietya.livejournal.com]

no, I haven't, but I just put it on hold at the library. thanks!

my sense of threat is pretty highly tuned, thanks to growing up as I did. unfortunately, so is my ingrained training to passively submit or it'll only go worse for me.... I'm working on embracing my inner bitch. Doing so online was a big help, actually. :)

[moonlightjoy.livejournal.com]

To be honest with you, the conversation went more like,

Man: "Hi."
Me: "uhhh.. ew."
Man: "I'm [insert name]"
Me: "Go away."
Man: "Huh? Really?"
Me: "Yeah." and I ignored him.

Actually, many of my encounters with men hitting on me have been the same:

Man: "I'd like to get to know you."
Me: "No, thanks."
Man: "Really?"
Me: "Yeah. Really."
Man: "Oh."

or

Man: "Are you asian?"
Me: "....?"
Man: "What kind of asian are you?"
Me: "... Filipino. ....?"
Man: "You know I've never had an asian girlfriend before.. You interested?"
Me: "No."
Man: "Oh? No?"
Me: "Nope."

And then they are confused, but they go away. I find this tactic much more direct and effective than ignoring them. Cuz if you ignore them they don't go away. So now I very firmly tell them to leave me alone.

Oh, or this one time I was on the metro and this man was sitting next to me and seriously staring at me.. I looked up to glare at him, but he took it as an invitation to say hello. And he did, and I said hi back.. and then I said, "You're making me uncomfortable. Could you please stop looking at me?" and he said, "Oh.. okay." and turned away.

=D

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

You'll have to forgive me but that's bullshit.

You act like women are some helpless sex that can't defend themselves or like men never get beaten or killed.

Of course I look around when I'm walking after dark, and when it's light out too. I'm not paranoid or anything, and I don't assume most people are out to get me, because they clearly aren't but if one was, I'm not giving them a chance either.

Just because maybe society encourages me to fight back or be prepared more than you, that doesn't mean you're innately stuck being the victim or the victim to be. Stand up for yourself, learn how to fight if need be, carry a knife or keys on a heavy enough ring to be a usefull weapon.

It's not like guys just walk around with a magical penis of invulnerability you know.

[erbie.livejournal.com]

If you're ever, God forbid, in a situation like that, you just have to listen to your intuition. The main point of The Gift of Fear is to listen to your intuition. It's always telling you SOMEthing, and it's ALWAYS in your best interest.

When I was robbed at gunpoint, I didn't resist, I didn't try to talk my way out of it, I just did what he told me. And I didn't get hurt. (Aside from psychologically.) Same thing when I was car-jacked. You just kinda know what to do. Both times, I got out of if alive and unharmed, because I listened to what my intuition was telling me to do.

A lot of times, when a guy talks to a woman, her reaction is based on her intuition. Another thing de Becker says is to go ahead and give yourself permission to look stupid or be assertive. It's much better than being a victim because you didn't want to offend the poor guy.

Don't just get it from the library. Buy it. You'll want to reread it many times.

[erbie.livejournal.com]

No, it's not bullshit. Ask your female friends.

[erbie.livejournal.com]

Or you get the famous "Can I watch?"

[lietya.livejournal.com]

Wow - I'm really glad you survived both experiences! How terrifying.

Yeah, learning not to be "polite" is really important for a woman who'd prefer not to be taken advantage of (in a lot of different ways).

[electricland.livejournal.com]

Oh so true. It's the bizarre sense of entitlement that gets me. What, you noticed my existence and now I'm supposed to be nice to you? No.

"Apparently in this society, being male and an asshole makes you worthy of
our time." -- Kat Stratford

(God I love that movie.)

[lawgeekgurl.livejournal.com]

okay, I call bullshit on your bullshit.

the average woman is physically smaller and weaker than the average man. the average violent crime is perpetrated by men. the majority of rape is committed by men. nearly all serial killers are men. if physically attacked, who do you think is more likely to win the confrontation? you have no idea what it's like to be a woman alone in public or on the street at night.

[lawgeekgurl.livejournal.com]

(not to mention that the rapes are by men against women. ditto the majority of serial killings by men)