(no subject)

[electricland]

Bashed my elbow on the door on my way out of the office to get coffee. There's irony there if you look for it.

Did vapour barrier on the weekend. (Probably not enough.) Jen and pariah_ink told me cheerful things like "Holmes on Homes is always finding houses with giant holes in the vapour barrier, and he gets really angry about it!" (is there anything Holmes on Homes doesn't get angry about? He's the Incredible Hulk of home renovation) and "Apparently having no vapour barrier isn't ideal but it's OK, because the vapour kind of spreads out, and having perfect vapour barrier is good, but having some holes in the vapour barrier is bad because drafts and things concentrate in the holes."

The problem is that we're trying to vapour-barrier an old house and there are things in the way of a perfect moisture-proof membrane between out and in. Like rafters. And walls. And floors. (Windows are a different story -- the idea is you get nice new vinyl windows that are moisture-proof all on their own.) I started on Jen's bedroom yesterday, which is an addition on the back of the first floor -- you could think of it as a cube with five sides exposed to the elements -- and as I gazed meditatively at the floorboards beneath my feet, I thought "Hmm. There's insulation under there, but where are we going to put the vapour barrier? Oh, shit." Because really our only options are (a) take up the floorboards, vapour barrier, put 'em down again, or (b) vapour barrier on top, new flooring above it (laminate flooring is nice...).

But in other news my mum and I have perfected our technique for applying the black goo (which does not stick well to the pink spray-foam insulation, although it likes vapour barrier and clean wood just fine). We have a highly sophisticated method involving the index finger of whatever glove we happen to have on at the time.

[Edit: Looks like my paid account has run out on me as I'm down to 3 userpics. That's what I get for not checking my Hotmail for months on end...]

Comments

My pretend contractor boyfriend

[lostvoice.livejournal.com]

He does say nice things about the contractors who do the work well. I've heard him on several occasions.

And he gets the most angry when the vapour barrier doesn't get taped off properly. And then it causes mould. Which is a good reason to get angry.

Re: My pretend contractor boyfriend

[electricland.livejournal.com]

*whimper*

What if I'm doing it wrong and I don't know?!

Re: My pretend contractor boyfriend

[lostvoice.livejournal.com]

Fret not, grasshopper.

The point of the vapour barrier is to prevent condensation from getting inside and onto the drywall, right? So, you just need to make sure that all the seams are sealed and attached to something - no gaps. Are you using that red tape? And I say red, 'cause I've only ever seen it in that colour.

Here's what I've done:

Staple the barrier to the studs, and provide a little overlap. Go over the seams with the tape, ensuring a tight seal. You also need to make sure it's taped at the floor and ceiling as well.

Re: My pretend contractor boyfriend

[electricland.livejournal.com]

My thanks, O Enlightened One!

Actually we don't tape. We use the black goo. (See above.) Although it sounds as if tape would be SIGNIFICANTLY less messy... hmm.

But the principles should be the same, and that's certainly what we've been TRYING to do...

Re: My pretend contractor boyfriend

[nellisir.livejournal.com]

Actually, the point of vapour barrier in a cold climate is to prevent the moisture *inside* the house from getting out into the insulation. The vapour barrier always goes on the warm side of the insulation, so in the north it's between the drywall & the insulation, and in the south it's between the exterior sheathing and the insulation.

Warmer air carries more moisture, and since we up north spend more time heating our house than cooling it, on average the air inside the house is warmer & moister than air outside the house.

[raithen.livejournal.com]

did Beau get lost, then? *sad*

[electricland.livejournal.com]

I upgraded again. He's back! ;)

[raithen.livejournal.com]

BEAU!!! Sweet darling Beau! Who has a stubborn streak 12 miles long when it comes to getting things he wants. Like food. And grain. And love. And who is crystal CLEAR in expressing what he wants. And who has a "fuck off" look that is second to none.

But who is TERRIBLY sweet and was lovely for the dentist yesterday.

[nellisir.livejournal.com]

Are you re-sheetrocking the entire house? Actually, you probably are...I remember those pictures now.

I wouldn't fret much about the vapor (vapour) barrier in the bedroom floor, unless it's some kind of code thing. The vapor(vapour) is carried (duh) on air; warm air carries more vapor(vapour) than cold, and warm air rises. Winter is a bigger concern than summer. I assume the floor is properly insulated, and the insulation is properly sealed in, though -- plywood or something under the joists?

Drafts & stuff are a function of insulation, not vapor barriers. Heat is either lost directly (ie, through a hole, which creates a draft) or via transference (an object is cold on one side & hot on another; energy moves from the hot side to the cold side). Transference is a bigger problem than direct loss, and vapor barriers don't do anything for it. Likewise, most drafts are around doors, windows, and electrical outlets -- places where there are holes in the walls, the insulation, & the vapor barrier anyways.

[nellisir.livejournal.com]

Wow. Looking at that black goo stuff, you guys are getting way more serious about vapor (vapour) barriers than we do.

[electricland.livejournal.com]

The ironic thing is that supposedly, the spray foam insulation means we don't need vapo(u)r barriers at all. But our inspector feels otherwise, and, well, he's in charge. ;)

[electricland.livejournal.com]

Yep, spray foam insulation under the floor as well. You raise a good point about covering it from underneath -- I don't know if we've done that yet, but will check.

but as for drafts through our electrical outlets, BITE YOUR TONGUE! ;) My uncle encased ALL the light switches and outlets on the exterior walls in plastic sheeting before the insulation was applied. We have now carefully unwrapped them and part of what takes so long with the vapour barrier is that we put a circle of black goo on the plastic around each box and stick it to the big sheet of vapour barrier. Then we cut a hole in the big sheet. Voila, (practically) continuous vapour barrier.

Hopefully the insulation is thick enough behind the boxes to cut down on transference too.

as for the rest, we will caulk. A lot.

[nellisir.livejournal.com]

When they start talking about transference, they usually start talking about windows, doors, & studs. Wood isn't a very good insulator, frankly, and most houses are siding -> sheathing -> studs -> sheetrock. So unless you wrap solid insulation around your house & break that line of transference, there's bugger-all you can really do about it*. And if you DO do that, then you get a sealed house, probably with insufficient inside/outside air circulation, and you have a whole NEW set of problems.

*There ARE ways you can do it, but trust me...you don't want to. ;)