(no subject)

[electricland]

While cooking I listened to the second part of Renegade Architect on Ideas, about Christopher Alexander. Must find the books they were discussing. Some of the most thought-provoking stuff I've ever heard, I think: the need for beauty in the built environment, and the extreme artificiality (I believe he used the term "violence") of the modern way of building, and the objective nature of beauty and symmetry, and God being present in all things, and more. (I was in the kitchen so I kept missing bits... may have to get the transcript, or they may put it online.)

Anyway, they were talking about the fundamental principles of beauty and how they seem to be universal; touched briefly on molecular symmetry etc. I always enjoyed point groups and molecular geometry. Interesting how the universe seems to like both order and chaos; entropy is only one part of the equation. Is it foolishly mystical or only common sense to think that of course we humans and other living things like symmetry because it's what created us in the first place?

Hope I'm not getting too pompous here.

Comments

[freerider.livejournal.com]

Is it foolishly mystical or only common sense to think that of course we humans and other living things like symmetry because it's what created us in the first place?
Neither of course. Its a fairly intuitive leap for those who share a innate sense of order. For those of us who dwell in mad chaos all the fucking time, symmetry grates. Near symettry with slight flaws draw you in, because the flaw creates the beauty, in my mind. Does this mean the creator is a near-perfect diety? Does it mean that instead those who rely on the senses are tools of the demiurge? I don't know. Still, finding meaning in symmetry is admirable, IMO, anda sign of good taste and moral fortitude.

[electricland.livejournal.com]

You don't find crystal structures and molecules and leaves soothing?

Tsk.

[freerider.livejournal.com]

No, I find those "almost but not quite a pattern" things far more soothing. Things like flowing water or pokies or rain falling on a window- stuff like that.

[freerider.livejournal.com]

Taking it further, its been my experiance that symmetrical patterns and perfect rythms actually irritate me. I have this urge to destroy them whenever I see them and to make sure I have none in my regular environments.

[electricland.livejournal.com]

Understood. Sorry I put my earlier thought badly. I think most people (including myself) feel as you do, that a coldly perfect, mechanical symmetry is not appealing; however, that said, a certain amount of symmetry or near-symmetry (to continue picking on one of the 15 principles of beauty) seems to be important to just about everybody. For instance, it's been demonstrated that the more symmetrical a face is (for example) the more attractive people find it. Without seeing your regular environments I can't tell if this applies to you as well.

What I find particularly satisfying in molecular symmetry (to take an example), or to go up a level, cellular structure, is the fact that atoms everywhere in the universe arrange themselves in predictable ways and can form incredibly complex and beautiful things -- crystals, viruses, people -- because of some very basic principles. I love the fact that you get organic compounds in comets. I think DNA is amazing. If we were all made out of formless moosh, that would be depressing.

But imperfection within symmetry, at a higher level, certainly adds life to the mix.

The above are my own thoughts, but I really do urge you to check this guy out. He's both an iconoclast and a visionary and these are all too rare.